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Energy Crisis - India

Discussion about the energy crisis in India. Let us get a grip over the facts and debate possible solutions.

by Praveen Baratam

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Evangelist

Level 4

Ramgopal Neerukonda - 10 years ago Permalink Edit

Prasad IMAX in Hyderabad, in the state of Andhra Pradesh, now has the distinction of being India’s first “green theater”. It has achieved that feat by installing 100KWp solar photovoltaic power generation system on the roof of the theater.

http://ecofriend.com/prasads-imax-shows-the-way-by-turning-green.html

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Solar Powered Theater in India

3 Comments

Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

That is fantastic news. Prasad's has always been a pioneer in what ever they did, be it the First I-MAX or the first green theater... Hats off to the group and the leadership there!!

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Kkartikaa Nagi, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

wowwwwww such great news :)

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Tarak Nagireddy, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Excellent, atleast now every other industry should follow this..

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Maven

Level 8

Praveen Baratam - 10 years ago Permalink Edit

Here is a Spreadsheet to estimate costs of a Solar Grid Tie Kit based on average consumption. The advantage with Grid Tie Kit is that when the solar panels are not producing enough power due to shade or other reasons the system compensates for it from the mains.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgzulydHCKZddHBiZUdtNS0xRkZNYlRJUlZrYzBzMXc

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2 Comments

Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

A medium sized office consumes about 5KW and costs around Rs. 7 Lakhs (12,500 USD).

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Solar power should first be utilized where we do not need to store power for later consumption (Night). Offices functioning only during day time are good candidates for Solarification.

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Maven

Level 8

Praveen Baratam - 10 years ago Permalink Edit

There is another often overlooked socio-economic problem associated with using solar power in homes and agricultural fields. Given the high value of the installed equipment they are lucrative targets for goons everywhere, more so when they are installed in far away fields.

Indian Government should make it a priority to protect these assets and make stealing them a non-bailable offence with rigorous punishment for the guilty. There should be a registration system in place similar to that available for automobiles. Buyers should register their solar panels and always check their purchase against a database available online.

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3 Comments

Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Yes this should be implemented or else we will face many issues later.But again we cant maintain another department for registering this products,this should be done by the existing departments in India(like Fire,Postal departments) is what I think.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

It should be a system built on Public Private Partnership (PPP) model or else its difficult to control corruption.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

RFID and 3D Glass Etching can be used to tag each panel above 200 Wp and that id can be used to register online. The system should preferably be maintained by a consortium of companies involved in Solar related activities and those who directly benefit from the rising sales of Solar systems.

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Maven

Level 8

Praveen Baratam - 10 years ago Permalink Edit

Approximate Solar PV System Capacity:

Daily Solar Insolation (KW / Sq. Mtr. / Day)

X

Rated PTC Capacity of System

=

Total KWh / Day

Eg: Each Solar Panel (210 W PTC) will produce around 1.05 KWh per day with an average insolation of 5 KWh / Sq. Mtr / Day.

Refer to the attached map for Insolation readings across India.

For an accurate calculation use this online calculator :-

http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/calculators/PVWATTS/version1/

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Annual Average Daily Solar Insolation - India

2 Comments

Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Apparently Gujarat is having the most favorable policies across India. Here is a thorough document about Roof Top Solar Systems in India - http://headwaysolar.com/Solar_Rooftop_Project_India_2012.pdf.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

This was realized by Narendra Modi,C.M Gujarat .Initiatives taken up by his team
http://www.narendramodi.in/tag/solar-power/

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Evangelist

Level 4

Prasad Botu - 10 years ago Permalink Edit

What is abundant in India? Sunshine. Solar panels are the best option for generating electricity in India. The problem with solar power is that the panels produce electricity at different amounts based on sunshine, clouds, shade etc. This problem can be mitigated by connecting the solar panel power to the national grid. Government has to give incentive for producing solar power. UK and German governments have introduced a scheme to encourage residents to generate solar power on their roofs. By this, the government or the power companies pay incentive for producing solar power. UK government is currently running a scheme by which each unit of solar electricity produced receives £0.16 per KWh

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Solar panel installation at my place

17 Comments - Show All

Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

There are subsidies in India too in the form of Tax incentives and reimbursement but they are often unclaimed because of corruption and red tape in our system. We have to evolve a value proposition that goes beyond government subsidies.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Utilities like power need a helping hand from everybody by reducing the load on them. Its dangerous to expect the utility companies to pump up production by starting new thermal or nuclear power plants.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

When we can cough out millions to buy homes.... we can as well spend a little more to power them. Millions face power cuts for 10 hours or more everyday in Andhra. Solar power output fluctuates but having something is better than nothing.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

There are many ways to generate the necessary power, but the problem is no one plans to generate their own power. What we all want is continuous power supply at highly subsidized prices.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

The current power crisis in India will surely make people plan for alternative sources of electricity. We cannot avoid food because its expensive when we are starving. Similarly its a matter of light and darkness now

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

A similar analogy can be drawn about municipal water supply. We do not entirely rely on municipal water supply for our needs in contrast to many developed countries. We make our own arrangements with bore wells even though they are expensive. A similar attitude is required for electricity now.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Exactly,People should plan for the other alternatives available to generate the power.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

But how do we motivate people to adopt solar power for their homes?

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

There are many ways like advertisements,organizing workshops (seminars, conferences and other events) which may not reach everyone,but people who are capable of thinking will surely understand and then they will educate others.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

The best way to motivate people in my opinion is to lead them by example. If we want others to use Solar power for their homes then we should first start using it and show others how useful it can be.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Yes! this will surely help and they can also see the setup in live

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Prasad Botu, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Any social, environmental or national issue I come across is someway or the other related to corruption and improper policy execution in India. All episodes of Satyamev Jayate are irrelevant if there is no corruption in India.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

We are a developing nation Prasad and so are our values. Our government is a mirror image of ourselves and our society. Before we blame the government we should blame ourselves. No government can mend a nation, only its people can. Its all upto us now.

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Prasad Botu, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Yes Praveen, I am not blaming government alone for corruption. I am telling the root cause of the problem.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

So any ideas for spreading the Solar value proposition to the masses?

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Prasad Botu, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Solar power can be best utilised in villages where the shade from adjacent buildings not there much. Solar power linked to grid is only solution. Feed in tariff, the one that is there in UK is the best option.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Buildings shading other buildings is an important concern in cities which has been overlooked so far in every discussion. @Prasad you brought up a very important issue.

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Evangelist

Level 4

Ramgopal Neerukonda - 10 years ago Permalink Edit

Solar Street lightning implementation in Gujarat.Government initiative to preserve the power for future use.This system will not use the power from grid or power station.

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Solar street lightning in Gujarat

25 Comments - Show All

Mir Sarfaraz Ali, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Yes, thats one more to the list.
There are n number of ways to generate the solar energy.

All we need is an initiative from the govt to start investing in this technology and make better use of the resources available around us.

But yet again, do they have time to analyse this ?

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

We have different departments for power and technology.I don't understand why they are not coming up with some power generating projects,which will help the country

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Mir Sarfaraz Ali, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Moreover, they dont need to do something out of box or do some new research/invention. They just have to implement the same solution which is already used in other state like gujarat.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Each street light uses between 300W-500W depending on the rating used. Over a 10 hour period each light consumes 4 units of power everyday. The problem with electricity is that storage is expensive.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Continued ... To store 4 units of power we need at least 3 to 4 100AH batteries which cost around 10k each and last for 600 cycles ( < 2 years). Thus requiring over 10 battery replacements during the rated service of 25 years for the panel.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

There are smart uses for solar energy. But solar street lighting is just another fancy government propoganda initiative.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Instead of upgrading to Solar and LED lamps.... they can simply upgrade to LED lamps which save power. Thats a wise move until better batteries are available.... We should concentrate on using solar for day time needs without the need to store electricity for later.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Even though its a fancy propaganda it saves considerably good amount of energy.These lights are seen in Hyderabad,why they are not implementing through out Andhra.

http://news.fullhyderabad.com/hyderabad-news/hi-tech-city-solar-flyover-inaugurated-in-hyderabad-1873.html

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Praneeth Baratam, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Praveen makes a very important point here. The current technological and India's economical limitations need everybody to channelize solar generated power to day time uses like offices and to homes(with dual power supply) and to spend less on current power storage options

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Solar street lighting is a viable option where there is no reliable utility grid like in remote areas. Setting up utility power supply in remote areas can be very expensive.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Agreed.But the point here is how will people understand that LED consumes less energy than the Sodium Vapour/Halogen lamps which we are using for our street lights.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

So government should replace all the existing street lamps with LEDs/CCFLs to set an example and motivate the public to use them in their daily life

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Srikanth Simhadri, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

I feel the stage of just implementing is over, there is a huge research going on about Solar power utilization, Many companies are still working hard to create a family car which runs using Solar energy, and which they are unable to...

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Technology is always improving and progressing. While we may need to wait for some more time to use it for transportation, etc. It is already good enough to be used for Irrigation, Offices, etc.

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Srikanth Simhadri, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Today I met my Mtech fnds, in which one of my fnd is planning to set up plant in Hyd which generates power using these Solar shields...

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Setting up Solar Power Plants and selling power to the grid is not yet viable because our transmission companies pay too less per KWh to justify for the setup costs. That is in turn because majority of the consumers pay less than Rs. 2 per KWh to the EB.

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Srikanth Simhadri, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

yes now they are paying 2.50/- per KWh, however Modi is selling the one unit for 18/- ;-)

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Tarak Nagireddy, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Hopefully, all the govt should do the same and encourage this sector. Mass production is the only way to reduce the cost of the solar equipment.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

@Tarak - If you check the previous comments you will understand why Solar street lighting may not be a good investment today. Batteries are expensive and need to be replaced every 2 years or so.

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Sravan Kumar Voona, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

for using solar energy we need solar panels, batteries, large area
so we have to consider the available area also
more area implies more energy ( we need large area to produce medium level of solar energy )
this is one of the major problem

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Sravan Kumar Voona, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

and even sun radiaition depends on time only at noon we get large amount of radiation so more solar energy is generated only at some peak hours through out the day
so we have switch to another source at normal hours for a fixed setup and we can use solar at peak hours

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Regarding space requirements, except for tall buildings housing a large number of inmates the roof top is sufficient to provide adequate power (120W per Sq.mtr). We should first plan to use solar power where we do not need to store power. Batteries are expensive.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

To compensate for low sunshine hours, we have to use Grid Tie solar systems. When solar power is inadequate the system will draw power from the utility power supply and compensate. Overall we can reduce significant load from the grid this way and grid will do the balancing act when necessary.

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Sravan Kumar Voona, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

@Praveen, what u stated r very good points i have a doubt regarding 120w per sq m generation, is this value a average value or peak hours value, can you plz share some points regarding this

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Every Solar panel has PTC rating which gives us an estimate of how much power it will produce in ideal conditions. These ideal conditions exist for about 5 hours in a day and capacity will be lower during other hours. 120Wp / Sq. Mtr. is based on PTC.

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Evangelist

Level 4

Ramgopal Neerukonda - 10 years ago Permalink Edit

All the Government office Parking’s should be covered with solar pannels.Parking lot ought to look like this in Germany as shown in the pic. Parking shades the cars while producing free energy

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Solar Parkings

11 Comments - Show All

Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

This is a great idea. Solar power can power any activity that coincides with day light hours such as Govt. and other offices. The initial cost factor is reduced by more than half if we don't need to store electricity for later use.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

But the challenge here is Solar panels are costly.Indian government cannot afford for that.If Govt. can provide subsidy for buying the solar panels then I think many people will help in saving the Energy(power) for future use.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Subsidies are evil. They are like killing one person to save another. We have to bring solar power into the economy with least help from the Govt. Just because people can buy electricity @Rs.2/unit doesn't mean it costs only that much.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Subsidies mask reality and go against judicious use of scarce resources including money. Its politicians' way of appeasing people to vote for them by stealing from the same people indirectly.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Offices buy Air Conditioners that cost a ton to buy and maintain then why cant they invest on Solar.

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Ramgopal Neerukonda, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Our so called Politicians,persons who are responsible for making better society are not intelligent enough they don't even think of saving power or educating the people to save power.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

All this should happen as a private effort without any help from the Govt. There is no other way.

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Tarak Nagireddy, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Right. Only thing govt can do, is to provide some subsidy for the private industry which uses them

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Actually subsidies work against the economic well being of the country. What our Govt. should do instead is to pass on the actual costs of producing and distributing power to the consumer with out any subsidy. Then solar power becomes comparable in price to utility (Govt.) power.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Businesses and enterprises will be able to claim tax rebates and depreciation by investing in Solar.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

In USA many companies lease out Solar equipment to households and charge them the same price every month as the utility power companies do. They are able to do that because Govt. does not subsidize power. http://www.solarcity.com/residential/solar-lease.aspx

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Maven

Level 8

Praveen Baratam - 10 years ago Permalink Edit

Around 40% of electricity produced in India is used for Irrigation. That's a huge chunk of the pie worth optimizing. We cannot increasingly burn coal to meet these requirements.

In contrast to domestic and industrial sectors which often require a dependable and continuous supply from the grid, Irrigation can use solar and wind energy which by nature are not continuous but can be harvested in plenty. Irrigation can be effectively managed with supply only during day light hours and its reliance on Grid is sub optimal.

The key is Distributed Generation or Local Generation which minimizes losses and maximizes efficiency.

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Solar Irrigation

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

With plummeting Solar PV prices a solar irrigation system could cost as little as Rs. 60k per acre.

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Praneeth Baratam, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

With alternative sources of energy, the upfront costs can be high but in the long run, energy becomes sustainable and affordable/if not free.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Public infrastructure also costs a lot of money. In India it costs around $1 Million / MW installed capacity of coal fired plant (6-10 MW Capacity). Local Generation also mitigates the need for power distribution infrastructure.

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Praneeth Baratam, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

That again brings us to the mammoth public-private collaborations like Reliance and others who may not be willing to part with the huge revenues that the existing systems generate

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Praneeth Baratam, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

There is a documentary called 'Ethos' which is a great revelation of the current oil companies and their lobbying in USA for the preservation of existing systems.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

But all this is not about state sponsored or subsidized initiatives. Its about self sufficiency and self reliance with out depending on common utilities.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

There is no point in blaming the system for anything. We cannot mend anything that way. We have to push for self sufficient villages as the building blocks of our nation.

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Praneeth Baratam, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Very true. Who will bring this up? Would a common village farmer know that he has alternatives?

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

What is needed is a change of attitude..... to be self sufficient.... we buy land, we buy our home, we spend millions on it because we think of them as assets. We also need to invest on our necessities and reduce the burden on public utilities.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Most villages in AP now face 12-16 hours of power cut and there is no easy solution for this problem.

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Maven

Level 8

Praveen Baratam - 10 years ago Permalink Edit

Bio-Fuels - Palm Oil (Crude Palm Oil)

India consumes 558 million liters of petroleum / day (Approx as of 2013) i.e. 204 billion liters / year. [1]

Oil Palm Yield - 2400 liters / acre [2]

Required crop land - 85 million acres
Total Agricultural land - 444 million acres. [3]
Utilized Agricultural Land - 391 million acres. [3]

Un-utilized agricultural land of 53 million acres itself can reduce oil imports by 60% and bio-fuels are carbon neutral :-)

References:
1. http://goo.gl/sXvZNX
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_biofuel_crop_yields
3. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/india/agricultural-land-percent-of-land-area-wb-data.html

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Praneeth Baratam, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

This is a very interesting list of facts...this needs a nationwide initiative but definitely sounds doable.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

We have an urgent need to further automate agriculture and decrease its reliance on fossil fuels. We will face food crisis not by allocating our arable land to bio-fuel crops but by relying on ever scarce fossil fuels.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

To start with every farm land can plant palm trees on its periphery and utilize the so produced oil to power its machines.

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Praneeth Baratam, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Don't these farms need sophisticated equipment to produce palm oil from the palm trees in their farms?

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

There is technology and machinery to use Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) or Pure Plant Oil (PPO). It can be easily utilized in the tropics than in colder climatic conditions.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

SVO Kits are available for Diesel engines.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

And for Palm Oil extraction and processing they can use some upgraded oil mill in the village.

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Praneeth Baratam, Evangelist - 10 years ago Edit

Thats a great idea.

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Praveen Baratam, Maven - 10 years ago Edit

Palm oil refining may need a chemical process depending on the required output quality but it is still doable.

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